Ban the shoulder charge, yay or nay?

Keep or ban the shoulder charge?

  • Ban it. It's to dangerous.

    Votes: 8 57.1%
  • It's part of our game, bring it back.

    Votes: 5 35.7%
  • Don't care either way.

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • Total voters
    14

S J

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No - I feel its too easy to make an error and really hurt someone.

Its not necessary and only done by very few.

I was always glad to see the guy who did it hurt himself.
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
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I agree Northern_Union, just as long as it does not target the head of the ball carrier or hit them from behind or when a player is no longer in possession of the ball. The game should not tolerate "dog shots". The hit by Kane Evans on Sam Kasiano IMO best exemplifies what is missing from the game, the gladiatorial aspect in lieu of choreographed wrestling moves that at times looks more like a dance than a physical contest.

There are greater dangers in terms of concussion in both the AFL and the NFL when players not in possession of the ball and even defenders can be hit from any direction without warning.

So now that is 3 votes to 2 in favour of "It's part of our game, bring it back" (as it looks like voting closed some time ago along with the last legal shoulder charge!)

Btw, I am new here and this is my first post on this site.
 
Reactions: Rabbits 21

Rabbits 21

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I agree Northern_Union, just as long as it does not target the head of the ball carrier or hit them from behind or when a player is no longer in possession of the ball. The game should not tolerate "dog shots". The hit by Kane Evans on Sam Kasiano IMO best exemplifies what is missing from the game, the gladiatorial aspect in lieu of choreographed wrestling moves that at times looks more like a dance than a physical contest.

There are greater dangers in terms of concussion in both the AFL and the NFL when players not in possession of the ball and even defenders can be hit from any direction without warning.

So now that is 3 votes to 2 in favour of "It's part of our game, bring it back" (as it looks like voting closed some time ago along with the last legal shoulder charge!)

Btw, I am new here and this is my first post on this site.
Is that Souths til I die off LU??

If it is please get Callmack over...

He needs to understand we can use both forums.... he doesn't have to leave LU......

We can chat better in a PM over here too.....

If you've any questions on here don't hesitate to ask SJ....

Make sure you fix your email settings in your profile so you don't get emails for every message...
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
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Is that Souths til I die off LU??

If it is please get Callmack over...

He needs to understand we can use both forums.... he doesn't have to leave LU......

We can chat better in a PM over here too.....

If you've any questions on here don't hesitate to ask SJ....

Make sure you fix your email settings in your profile so you don't get emails for every message...
Thanks for the tip. No mate, I'm SSTID off ZT and the ROAR (although I have not posted on the later for about a year now).

I am migrating from ZT which has become a "nanny state" basket case controlled by leftist liberals and the "politically correct police" who have no sense of humour or understanding of who contributes most to their site (their major stakeholders). Currently, the site has been undermined by trolls with no knowledge of the game and only a talent to create trouble. They have no insight, wit or talent for banter and just want to create chaos. About 10 of us, potentially up to 20 of us, may be migrating across soon (depending on whether or not I spread the word).

This site does not appear to be story driven though like ZT, can "junior members" submit stories or is that left for the "seniors" here. like the ROAR where only those of "Guru" status or above are entitled to have an opinion and then only if it is not in conflict with the authors and editors of the site.
 
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S J

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What's ZT ? Not heard of it.

We are not that prolific but easy going.

I don't thing anyone could call us leftist libs ...

Not sure what you mean by "stories". ROAR is very different from what I've seen.

But - opinions are free - so long as they don't upset people - ie trolling for annoyance, deliberate attacks etc - or bad language. We all swear but it is hoped we can tone it down in the main.

We have a political thread and non-NRL threads at the bottom of the main page for all of that.

I tend not to Mod too hard - if at all. TRUST is the key word.

:)
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
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What's ZT ? Not heard of it.

We are not that prolific but easy going.

I don't thing anyone could call us leftist libs ...

Not sure what you mean by "stories". ROAR is very different from what I've seen.

But - opinions are free - so long as they don't upset people - ie trolling for annoyance, deliberate attacks etc - or bad language. We all swear but it is hoped we can tone it down in the main.

We have a political thread and non-NRL threads at the bottom of the main page for all of that.

I tend not to Mod too hard - if at all. TRUST is the key word.

:)


Zero Tackle (ZT) regularly post stories and pictures often "appropriated" from FOX Sports but there are some original pieces as well. These articles/stories tend to provoke or stimulate discussion and debate. Sometimes if stories lack enough substance or interest we can expand the discussion. Right now we are in a period I call "the silly season" as there is little going on in the game so banter tends to increase. Apart from a recent reference to a "Dad joke" I haven't seen too much banter going on here but then I am new and have not explored the site thoroughly as yet. I love the idea of having PM btw. Good idea there.

I have posted on ZT for the last 2 years or so and on the ROAR briefly about a year ago. I am in touch offline with a number of regular contributors to ZT who are tired of the usual cycle of seeing the site shooting itself in the foot by over policing the wrong people. In general, the others like myself, are big on banter and expressing a sense of humour but we also like to talk about the game in depth and from different angles. Unfortunately, I seem to have been a magnet for trolls and a few pest in particular. I can more than hold my own without having to resort to vulgarity or personal attacks, unfortunately, the "usual pests" cannot. It would be easy and obvious to ban these reoffending profiles in favour of those that actually contribute to the site but this is never the case.

"opinions are free - so long as they don't upset people"

Some opinions (if critical of another club) CAN upset people, it is part of an open RL forum. It can also be the basis for banter and having a bit of fun. If I have been critical of a player, club or coach in the past I try to use humour to convey the point and try to make my criticism constructive without taking a sledgehammer to the problem.

From what you are describing it sounds like a good fit all round. I would be interested if anyone here has posted on Zero Tackle or the ROAR previously and if so what profile name they went under.

Cheers

SSTID
 

ALX22

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2013
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Sunshine Coast
No, the loss of a life occurred due to a shoulder charge. If we allow it back, and another death occurs then what happens???
 
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S J

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Feb 2, 2013
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Zero Tackle (ZT) regularly post stories and pictures often "appropriated" from FOX Sports but there are some original pieces as well. These articles/stories tend to provoke or stimulate discussion and debate. Sometimes if stories lack enough substance or interest we can expand the discussion. Right now we are in a period I call "the silly season" as there is little going on in the game so banter tends to increase. Apart from a recent reference to a "Dad joke" I haven't seen too much banter going on here but then I am new and have not explored the site thoroughly as yet. I love the idea of having PM btw. Good idea there.

I have posted on ZT for the last 2 years or so and on the ROAR briefly about a year ago. I am in touch offline with a number of regular contributors to ZT who are tired of the usual cycle of seeing the site shooting itself in the foot by over policing the wrong people. In general, the others like myself, are big on banter and expressing a sense of humour but we also like to talk about the game in depth and from different angles. Unfortunately, I seem to have been a magnet for trolls and a few pest in particular. I can more than hold my own without having to resort to vulgarity or personal attacks, unfortunately, the "usual pests" cannot. It would be easy and obvious to ban these reoffending profiles in favour of those that actually contribute to the site but this is never the case.

"opinions are free - so long as they don't upset people"

Some opinions (if critical of another club) CAN upset people, it is part of an open RL forum. It can also be the basis for banter and having a bit of fun. If I have been critical of a player, club or coach in the past I try to use humour to convey the point and try to make my criticism constructive without taking a sledgehammer to the problem.

From what you are describing it sounds like a good fit all round. I would be interested if anyone here has posted on Zero Tackle or the ROAR previously and if so what profile name they went under.

Cheers

SSTID
I don't mind reposts - ie from nrl.com - but like a comment as well - ie agree or disagree - why etc.

No harm in criticising a team/player as its not a troll etc and is valid.
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
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No, the loss of a life occurred due to a shoulder charge. If we allow it back, and another death occurs then what happens???
I understand your point and your concern but if you go down that road then you can't just single out RL. Union, AFL, NFL, WWE, Boxing, MMA all have the same or greater potential to cause serious brain damage or even death. What about motorsports? Or jockeys in horse racing? More jockeys have died due to riding accidents, or drivers in racing accidents than in any form of football combined! Where is the outcry there? I might add more Australians have died from drowning in pools or at beaches than horse racing, car racing and all forms of football combined! Shall we outlaw swimming pools and going to the beach as well?

All care has to be taken to ban and outlaw dangerous tackles, the incident with Alex McKinnon though an accident was an example of having a player driven into the ground head first but without the means of using his arms to brace himself against the fall as his arms were intentionally pinned against his body. I don't believe it was intentional but it was far more dangerous (along with spear tackles) than any shoulder charge has ever been.

I can certainly support an argument to ban shoulder charges throughout junior development but from U20 on I think there is a place in the game for it up to a point. Perhaps the days of the "Paul Harrigan vs Mark Carroll contests" are over (and I do miss them) and I also loved the big charges that Sam Burgess used to make (particularly one memorable one against the Dogs where Mick Ennis showed his metal and stood his ground). I see nothing wrong in this or in the tackle by Kane Evans on big Sam Kasiano. Sam himself nodded his approval at the shot and has given more throughout his career than he has ever received.

The argument is WHAT constitutes a shoulder charge, really? Too many tackles are pulled up when the shoulder is used even "with separation" to brace for impact rather than to punish the ball carrier. Players in possession also cut back or change their line at the last possible moment making it virtually impossible to do anything but react defensively as the ball carrier has the greater momentum and often chooses when to initiate contact. Worse, ball carriers are routinely allowed to get away with raising their forearm or elbow to the face or throat of a defender at the last possible moment. This also has as much risk of serious and permanent injury as a shoulder charge but is overlooked and rarely punished. Why? Why are you not calling out to protect defenders from these attacks?

FYI, going forward I will joke about "Bring Back the Biff!" as a rallying call to the former days when the game was less sanitised and more of a gladiatorial contest. It does not mean that I am advocating punch ups but it can be a natural consequence of players who make their living through a physical and often violent sport reacting at the spur of the moment without thinking. It IS understandable if not acceptable. Paul Gallen decking Nate Myles after years of accumulated "dog shots" that went unpunished is a classic example of a player saying "enough is enough", "I'm not going to cop this anymore". You may notice that Myles form soon dropped along with his confidence when the "dog shots" and cynical manipulating of the ruck vanished from his game. Violence begets violence and bullies don't like to get thumped back. In the end, I think Gallen was vindicated by his action. No one said a word against Sam Thaiday when he cynically and callously tried to bend and torque James Tamou's bandaged and broken thumb.

RL has always been a physical and sometimes brutal sport. These days it is a choreographed contact sport that at times more resembles a physical game of Oztag rather than a game of RL. Sometimes it seems more appropriate to hand out awards for an acting performance than for an athletic effort on the field. The game is being cynically exploited by coaches and players alike who are all trying to con the referees into awarding a penalty. It is this and the obsession with speeding up the game and not the shoulder charge that is more responsible for killing the game but it is easier to focus on one brutal aspect of the game than on the real problems that are destroying it.
 
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S J

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It is ironic they use the big hits to publicise SOO etc - yet then say we're after the Mums and kiddies :)

Re comment - if you have a beef etc - the top Forum "National Rugby League" is generally used - as some may not find it in a team specific thread.
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
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I don't mind reposts - ie from nrl.com - but like a comment as well - ie agree or disagree - why etc.

No harm in criticising a team/player as its not a troll etc and is valid.
No, I mean that sometimes the story that gets posted by Zero Tackle and their writers is often almost a direct copy from FOX Sports (i.e. lifted from another source without referencing it). There are of course original stories but often leveraged off a pre-existing published story.

If I am using a source in a post I reference it and do not try to pass it off as my own. Almost everything that I post is my own opinion or sense of humour concerning a topic of point of interest. There are times when there is breaking news of interest on a media website so I will post the headline, the guts of the story and the associated link/url. Mostly though it is just me, straight from the Bunny's mouth. ;)
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
266
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It is ironic they use the big hits to publicise SOO etc - yet then say we're after the Mums and kiddies :)

Re comment - if you have a beef etc - the top Forum "National Rugby League" is generally used - as some may not find it in a team specific thread.
I was a kiddie once SJ (a LONG time ago) but I was not driven to a life of violence and depression from seeing on-field punch-ups or shoulder charges. You have to ask the question WHY are these high impact collision used to promote the game and why is this form of marketing of the game so successful if it is not appreciated? The truth is fans of the game and of physical sports love the impact and the big collisions.

If the game continues to devolve instead of evolve and embraces a game that is more a hybrid of a game of rough touch football and WWE wrestling then more and more fans and kids (who are the next generation of players) will defect to soccer and RL will be gone in the next 20 years. The game is already under pressure from rival codes that are expanding rapidly into markets and demographics that the NRL have targeted. The NRL is in dire need to expand the competition nationally which is confronting news for supporters like myself of the 9 Sydney based clubs that face the threat of merging, relocating or being driven from the game altogether like the Jets and the Bears. Expand or perish, that is the choice the NRL is faced with. Yet another problem that is advantaging some clubs over others is the inequity in the salary cap system which includes undisclosed TPA's and the lack of transparency in the whole process. The Roosters current 2018 shopping spree is another example of apparent inconsistencies in the salary cap system that a lack of transparency in this process only exaggerates suspicions that the playing field is not level and the policing of the salary cap and TPA's is unfair and prejudiced. Greater transparency of this process would at least address many of these concerns but the NRL continues to ignore the problem at hand and the growing concerns from the majority of the game's supporters. Another glaring example of the inequity in the system is the fact that some clubs like Brisbane, who have the support of a whole state behind them, have a clear advantage over the 9 Sydney clubs competing for a slice of the same pie (in terms of their profile and attracting corporate sponsorships) while the Broncos practically have their pie to themselves.

Sorry if I went off the reservation on all of this but I am not familiar with the different threads and forums on this side. I may need to repost from this thread elsewhere in the future once I get my bearings and find the appropriate discussion to revive these comments on.

Cheers

SSTID
 
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Bazza

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2016
2,549
383
83
Mayweather would lose a few bouts - his quickness and half of the the time they his the shoulder for the knockout blow.

Speaking about footy - I'm 5,10 when I played footy I never got collected - mind you I got collected twice in the ring. the big brain injury was a work site injury.of the I'm still confused with the bitch who wrote a book about coma's. The first person I remember with the BIG brain injury was my Uncle - 1 week later after the 3 and a bit weeks in a Coma (NOT a induced coma) I had 2 of them - induced coma. Poor me - I probably deserved 2 of them though :hilarious: Your feet/hips/legs are the most important thing fellas.
 

Bazza

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2016
2,549
383
83
Mayweather would lose a few bouts - his quickness and half of the the time they his the shoulder for the knockout blow.

Speaking about footy - I'm 5,10 when I played footy I never got collected - mind you I got collected twice in the ring. the big brain injury was a work site injury.of the I'm still confused with the bitch who wrote a book about coma's. The first person I remember with the BIG brain injury was my Uncle - 1 week later after the 3 and a bit weeks in a Coma (NOT a induced coma) I had 2 of them - induced coma. Poor me - I probably deserved 2 of them though :hilarious: Your feet/hips/legs are the most important thing fellas.
This about the shoulder charge -not my shit@! Bazza!! Don't ban it - Why? If it's around the neck/head (Minimum 3 weeks) It has to be certain or otherwise they get Min 3 week ban. My my own preservative anyway.
 

Rabbits 21

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
4,577
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Thanks for the tip. No mate, I'm SSTID off ZT and the ROAR (although I have not posted on the later for about a year now).

I am migrating from ZT which has become a "nanny state" basket case controlled by leftist liberals and the "politically correct police" who have no sense of humour or understanding of who contributes most to their site (their major stakeholders). Currently, the site has been undermined by trolls with no knowledge of the game and only a talent to create trouble. They have no insight, wit or talent for banter and just want to create chaos. About 10 of us, potentially up to 20 of us, may be migrating across soon (depending on whether or not I spread the word).

This site does not appear to be story driven though like ZT, can "junior members" submit stories or is that left for the "seniors" here. like the ROAR where only those of "Guru" status or above are entitled to have an opinion and then only if it is not in conflict with the authors and editors of the site.
Hey mate I do read zero tackle but never joined it!

I'd like to get Shadow on here is well somehow.... people find him over bearing but you can't deny the passion he has for our club........ I'd be appreciate that if you can get him on here...

The more the merrier I say.....
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
266
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Hey mate I do read zero tackle but never joined it!

I'd like to get Shadow on here is well somehow.... people find him over bearing but you can't deny the passion he has for our club........ I'd be appreciate that if you can get him on here...

The more the merrier I say.....

Shadow and 3hats are pests that give our club a bad name. I have been known to go after clubs like the Roosters and the Broncos at times but I use reason and logic and humour to soften the blow. Shadow and 3hats just like to rant and get people offside. Their approach to reasoning and diplomacy is scorched earth at best and they can contribute nothing positive or insightful beyond their usual one-eyed diatribe. Believe me when I say that this site is better off without them.

One of the better profiles that is more representative of the cardinal and myrtle is chalky but he does not post much these days and I doubt he would venture beyond ZT. penso, another loyal Souths supporter, didn't like the change of format on this site and is still looking for another home. There are a few other Souths profiles on ZT but I don't know many of them well and I am not in contact with them.
 

SSTID

Active Member
Feb 10, 2018
266
111
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53
This about the shoulder charge -not my shit@! Bazza!! Don't ban it - Why? If it's around the neck/head (Minimum 3 weeks) It has to be certain or otherwise they get Min 3 week ban. My my own preservative anyway.
If your revelation about your injuries and past experience is on the level then I can respect your opinion and did not mean to offend you if this is an issue personal to you. I have been on both ends of plenty of shoulder charges and big hits in my time. I used to pride myself on having a similar defensive style to Terry Randall, David Gillespie and Les Davidson and had a reputation for my defence. Beyond that I had more than my fair share of bouts outside the ring growing up in Redfern in the 70's. Perhaps I have been fortunate but I have not suffered any ill effects because of this.

The fact remains, more people are injured or killed in other sports or means of recreation (swimming, rock climbing etc). It is a risk that can be minimised but never ruled out altogether. It is part and parcel of a physical contact sport and people who participate in it are aware of the risks. You will notice though that I have advocated a ban on shoulder charges during junior development and made provisos for their regulation (not near the head, not from behind or after the player is no longer in possession of the ball and if there is separation (which I am aware is no longer the rule). I would rather follow another sport altogether than see the game I love diminished even further into an alternate version of Oztag.
 

S J

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 2, 2013
18,290
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Time Traveller
I was a kiddie once SJ (a LONG time ago) but I was not driven to a life of violence and depression from seeing on-field punch-ups or shoulder charges. You have to ask the question WHY are these high impact collision used to promote the game and why is this form of marketing of the game so successful if it is not appreciated? The truth is fans of the game and of physical sports love the impact and the big collisions.

If the game continues to devolve instead of evolve and embraces a game that is more a hybrid of a game of rough touch football and WWE wrestling then more and more fans and kids (who are the next generation of players) will defect to soccer and RL will be gone in the next 20 years. The game is already under pressure from rival codes that are expanding rapidly into markets and demographics that the NRL have targeted. The NRL is in dire need to expand the competition nationally which is confronting news for supporters like myself of the 9 Sydney based clubs that face the threat of merging, relocating or being driven from the game altogether like the Jets and the Bears. Expand or perish, that is the choice the NRL is faced with. Yet another problem that is advantaging some clubs over others is the inequity in the salary cap system which includes undisclosed TPA's and the lack of transparency in the whole process. The Roosters current 2018 shopping spree is another example of apparent inconsistencies in the salary cap system that a lack of transparency in this process only exaggerates suspicions that the playing field is not level and the policing of the salary cap and TPA's is unfair and prejudiced. Greater transparency of this process would at least address many of these concerns but the NRL continues to ignore the problem at hand and the growing concerns from the majority of the game's supporters. Another glaring example of the inequity in the system is the fact that some clubs like Brisbane, who have the support of a whole state behind them, have a clear advantage over the 9 Sydney clubs competing for a slice of the same pie (in terms of their profile and attracting corporate sponsorships) while the Broncos practically have their pie to themselves.

Sorry if I went off the reservation on all of this but I am not familiar with the different threads and forums on this side. I may need to repost from this thread elsewhere in the future once I get my bearings and find the appropriate discussion to revive these comments on.

Cheers

SSTID
No worries. Every opinion is counted. But - I'm happy to open a "Soap Box" thread up top as a "sticky" permanent thread if anyone wants it ?

Just mean if its a generic type thing - not specific to one Club - then people may see it more.

Maybe - SSTID - you could have a weekly "Opinion/Editorial" - on anything - open for comment ? I do it occasionally.

Let me know - may be PM ?